Totally off-topic! Sicko the movie

[luckyluc]

Michael Morre latest documentary is opening this weekend. It is all over the medias, of course, and with the strong anti-american feeling going on it should be popular !!!!

www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/index.php?viewed=true


Do you intent to see it, or not?

[sistereurope]

Definitely going to see it, and hope that EVERYONE here sees it and that it starts some conversations about horrific state of healthcare here in the US.

[goldenmama]

My 14 year old son keeps talking about this movie, so I will probably take him to see it. He just saw Fahrenheit 911 and loved it.

[geordy]

Oddly enough he is even getting support from some of the Right on this one! I'd see if I didn't have to spend my money on health care since I do not have insurance now that I do not have a full time job

[Ray(aka) tripnebraska]

We will go and see it. Health care costs are really messed up in the U.S. and maybe this helps move the dialog toward change.

[Becky (Berkeleytravelers)]

At some point I will see it, I'm sure, just because I represent various entities in the industry being attacked and want to see how far off base this one is. The healthcare industry, more than most, seems to be subject to the "urban legend" syndrome.

While I'm aware that there are problems, as in any industry, I tend to see the majority of problems as lying more with the hospitals that bill $90 for a Tylenol (and they do, I'm not joking -- and that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of why health coverage is so expensive) than with health plans that refuse to pay that (or anywhere close to it) just because that's what the bill says. I mean (and again, I'm not making this up) why should one hospital be permitted to bill $350,000 or more for heart bypass surgery for which another (and in this particular instance, far more prestigious) hospital charges about $70,000?

Other instances I know of personally have involved totally ridiculous demands for services that were not necessary at all (or were simply preferred to equally or more effective but much less expensive services), and the refusal to do exactly what the person wanted resulted in nonsensical claims that lives had been ruined, etc. (In one instance in which I was involved, it was claimed that a marriage broke up because a certain form of care had been denied in favor of a different type. But it came out later that the reason the marriage broke up was that the wife had moved her boyfriend into the family home while the husband was in the hospital -- and he stayed! And that case generated some very nasty newspaper articles in which my client was publicly blamed for "destroying the marriage" even though I had told the reporter that I was not allowed to comment but that if he would read the sworn court filings, including testimony under oath by the people whose "sad story" he was reporting, he would find out the facts were not as he had been led to believe -- to which he responded that he did not have time because he had a deadline, and he just printed what they had said!)

I won't respond any further to this thread, because I know that this movie will take a position that's very popular and plays into what everyone "knows" based on things they have been told happened to friends of friends. Just be aware that taking one bad situation and extrapolating to "everyone" is not necessarily going to yield an accurate broad picture.

Okay, end of rant! Finis!!

(Sorry!)

[sistereurope]

All I know is that when I unexpectedly lost my job I had to pay OVER $500 a month for COBRA (that's health insurance coverage for anyone who isn't in the US), which I needed because my daughter has a medical condition that prevented me from going without coverage. Since I only received $1,000 a month unemployment, that could have been a REAL hardship. Luckily I had just moved in with my husband (then boyfriend)...as a single mother, I truly don't know how I would have survived.

I know that most people I know do have some kind of personal experience with some of the horror stories that I'm sure are portrayed in the movie. I'm not saying that I know who the real villains are, but something needs to be done, and I would be interested in hearing about our international friends' experiences.

[Anne]

I'll definetly go and see the movie once it is issued in France .
I saw "Bowling for Columbine" and thought it was great . I remember the beginning of it, when MMoore opens a bank account at a bank which is offering a GUN to each new client !Unbelievable
I also saw Fahrenheit 911 but was disappointed : the problem with MMoore IMO is that he is too excessive in his demonstrations , so they end up losing some credibility . I could figure out while watching the film how the pro-Bush would be able to make it look ridiculous . I saw a documentary film later (can't remember the title) by another guy : it said basically the same things as Fahrenheit 911 but in a very sober (documentary) way and was so much more credible .
That being said, I feel a great sympathy for MMoore .

[jpcat]

We'll see Sicko this weekend - wouldn't miss it. Michael Moore often gets criticized for going too far and of being one-sided, (that drumbeat has already begun ) but his role is that of provocateur. Just think how much discussion this film will stir up. Americans may be shocked to see how badly our health care system measures up against many other countries.

[luckyluc]

I totally agree with Jpcat. Moore is not a journalist, he never claimed to be. He is not even a documentalist, but by beeing a provocateur he get the discussion going and that is a good thing (As Martha would say ! LOL)

A national public health systems only work well when fully funded. In Canada the current goverment is under funding it and since the current Prime Minister is from Alberta they are pushing a joint public and private health care.

Let be thankfull that Harper's governement is a minority goverment so it will not pass the Commons. THe ironic in it is that such a systems already exist if one have enought money to go abroad for care.

[Penny]

I will see just out of curiosity.
I quit working in 2002 due to health problems, I had to go to the "county" hospital for doctors and mental health clinic for most meds until I got Medicare in 2004, my income is now make about 1/3 of what I made when I worked and actually less than that if you include benefits.
In Missouri you must incur in one month eligible medical expenses to qualify for Medicaid, or pay a set amount (for me 40% of income) and I have to do that at least one month in the year to be qualify for help on my prescription coverage. the state did not report that I qualified for 2006, it has taken me over 6 months to straighten it out and I am still waiting for my over-payment from the insurance company on my prescriptions. I get one problem solved and two more pop up. When I worked I had great insurance coverage for just about everything, but when I stopped working and tried to get Long Term disability benefits they took me round in round in circles trying to say I was able to work even though I had granted Social Security Disability, saying I had not filled out forms, I hadn't done the job I described, etc. I finally had to give up because of the toll it was taking on my health.

Would I rather be working, Yes, am I able No.

You may ask why I took my last trip to Paris if I am disabled, I had to do before my health problems became worse (and certain things will) and I couldn't travel. and I really wanted to get away from all the bureaucracy BS that I had been dealing with for months. And I had to see Paris at least one more time. Luckily I had to pay for very little of it, thanks to miles and my son and sisters, LOL that why I spend the $2. a week on the lottery. It was easier for me to plan my trip than dealing with all the doctors, disability and insurance @#@ I have over the last six years.
Medical coverage for seniors, disabled and unemployed here is deplorable and the benefits in the state of Missouri are a joke. If you fully qualify for Food Stamps you get $36 (single) and that is with an income of less than $1,000. a month.
And yes I know there are people who take advantage of the insurance, benefits, etc. which in turn makes it difficult for the truly needy to get help but if the insurance companies spend more on paying claims rather than fighting them they would save more money in the long run.
and pharmaceutical companies, give up the commercials and you could cut the costs of meds in half.
Sorry I just fell off my Soapbox, LOL.

[Becky (Berkeleytravelers)]

Penny, you are absolutely right that the worst part of bogus/questionable claims (from a societal standpoint) is that it tends to make people skeptical about the valid ones! I'm glad you've had Paris to take your mind off of what obviously has been quite an ordeal. Chin up, and keep fighting!

[andi]

Having read the above, here is a basic layout of how it works in the UK for anyone who doesn't know.

OUR NHS (National Health Service)
Workers will pay Nation Insurance contributions through their wages, these are deducted each week/month from the salary at a set rate for everyone. Anyone who does not work still gets free treatment even though they don't pay the contribution. If you are ill and need medical attention, be it from a doctor or hospital you simply call your doctor and go free of charge, you can get emergency treatment at the A&E free too. If you are referred from a GP to the hospital for treatment you get put on a waiting list for an appointment. When you get there the treatment is free. Medications are not free for those who work, there is a set price for each item on your prescription. If you are not working or on a low income or a pensioner, or under 16, this is free. Lots of people who are working pay for a private medical insurance as well as the NI contributions, so that they can go private for faster treatment.

Whilst our system is good because it means everyone is entitled to treatment regardless of income, there have been problems over the past few years. Many hospitals have bed shortages, causing waiting lists to grow longer and longer. Cash problems have caused many hospitals to close down so people have to travel further for treatment. Hospital cleanliness has dropped, introducing new super bugs that are devastating if caught. Many of these problems have arisen since each local authority took control of its own budget. Our government is always trying to find ways to improve the situation. All said......when my hubby had his heart attack, he was dealt with promptly, efficiently and with great compassion. We can not fault the system we have. I am sure there are others who will tell a different story.
If our workers pay for private insurance they can get seen by a doctor and operated on usually within the week in a private hospital, on the NHS it may take several months.........but it is free so you have to decide which is the better option.

[trechic]

In Massachusetts as of December 31, everyone over the age of 18 must have health insurance coverage! If they don't, then there will be some sort of deduction they will not recieve on there taxes. I am vague about what it is exactly I read, but my question is - who is going to pay for it? They don't call it Taxachusetts for nothing!! Small business owners must provide healthcare plans now for their employees now, too.

[joan1]

Trechnic I think that is a good thing. I think everyone shouldl have health insurance , just like everyone who drives must have car insurance.

I know our system is not perfect,( it sounds very similar to UK'S) , but I am sorry,, Becky,, your system is really really sick. My friend died in an American hostpital( no fault of hospital or doctors) but the bills were shocking. I mean,, lucky her family was rich, cause 2 days costed well into the six digits.
My hubbys aunt ant uncle are American,, they told us their health insurance cost 800 dollars a month. How is that considered reasonable by anyone??? How can the average family afford that???
I do believe that the treatment and medical advances etc are great in the States9best in the world I am sure),,, I just don't think the medical system is fair to the poor, or the working poor, or the lower middle class,, which makes up a large proportion of the population doesn't it?

Oh, well, no where is perfect. ,, but maybe ,,,, Paris... LOL

PS I do not consider my post, or the movie anti - American,, I hate that term anyways,, it seems to be a phrase people sometime throw out to deflect away from real debate about issues. Like when OJ Simpson was thrown out a restaurant by the owner as he said he didn't feed murderers... OJ tried to claim it was " because I am black) ...
I am PRO American people,, but am against the medical system.

[Anne]

I strongly think that there are four things that any rich country should guarantee to ALL its citizens : a shelter, food, healthcare and education . It is a matter of principles and decency .
Everything else is people's own business (except for security you may say, but this a very different problem since no country can "guarantee" security to its citizens) .

[Becky (Berkeleytravelers)]

Anne, you're right -- I couldn't agree more but as to US healthcare you have to realize that the providers (hospitals, doctors, drug companies, etc.), who are constantly raising the charges to everyone who pays (whether individuals or insurance companies) are going to fight to the bitter end to keep the government from slaughtering their lovely cash cow!

Trechic - most likely the tax bite is to finance the costs for the people who don't otherwise have insurance. If you're getting insurance through your employer, really "you" are paying for it because it's part of your total compensation -- although at least you aren't taxed on that part -- and your employer might well pay employees a little more in salary if not for the money that is going to health care premiums (which usually is a lot more than most people realize even for a single individual - at my firm, it costs around $500-700 per month per person, depending on what type of coverage is selected, without considering dental or other related coverages, and that's for a large group - for small groups it's usually more per person because there are smaller numbers sharing the risks).

[jpcat]

Just came from seeing Sicko. I highly recommend that our forum members in the US see this film. It's about more than our healthcare system - it's a case for a more just society. And for those of you in Canada, the UK and France - you should feel very proud of your system. (And anywhere else that has non-profit health care.)

By the way, there are lots of scenes in Paris and interesting interviews with various residents, both locals and ex-pats. According to my husband, (a healthcare provider), France has the best system in the world. Just another reason to love it!

[Anne]

Jpcat, I wish that your husband were right . But I am afraid that France isn't competing for the best system in the world anymore, and things are actually going worse every year .
The problem is that the Sécurité Sociale (national healthcare system) has been in HUGE deficits for several years, and so of course the gouvernments have been cutting on expenses years after years, mostly by reducing the amounts reimbursed to patients . So most people now have a "caisse complémentaire" = a private insurance that will pay for the amounts which are not being reimbursed by the Sécurité Sociale . Of course, the contribution that you pay to the S.S. (deducted from your salary) + to your private insurance (deducted from your salary if it is a company plan or paid directly by you) is much lower than in the USA, but then healthcare is cheaper in France generally speaking .
Governments have also closed quite a few hospitals, cut down on nurses and reduced drastically the number of medecine students : one technocrat schmuck once had the brilliant idea that the simplest way to prevent people from going to their doctor too often was to create a shortage of doctors, so in the end of the '70s I think, they brutally divided by 2 or 3 the numerus clausus in the medicine school and now whe do have a shortage of doctors, mostly in the countryside . Appointment to my ophtalmologist is 9 months (last time I complained about this to the doctor's secretary, she told me about a place in the SE of France which is 20 months !), gynecologist is 1 year ! Now the number of medicine students have at last been increased, but it will take at least 10 years until things improve . Talk about the best system in the world !

[Anne]

Actually, the French system is theoretically brilliant and it really used to be so, only it isn't economically viable anymore ...