Totally off-topic! Sicko the movie

[joan1]

anne266, your french system sounds very similar to the Canadian system,, not perfect,, but as a rule I feel better then the American system. We too have long waits for non emergency care,, and to see a specialist , very long waits, but, my own mother had two very complicated heart surgeries,, and had to be transported to a larger city for them, done by a famous specialsit,, and it cost us nothing.
We never had to choose between our home or our health,,and I am afraid, that in the States , that is the case for some unfortunates.
We do have long waits though, and they do talk of hospitals not having beds, but what they mean, is the hospitals do not have enough staff.
My own mother was hospitalized for three months last year( she was seriously ill and did in fact pass away( die)) and so I am very familar with our failiings. I bathed her myself as the nurses were too busy, but, she did recieve medicine that would have cost 350 dollars a day, for free .. so our system, while not good, at least you know that money does not affect the decisions the doctors must make.

[joan1]

Anne266, Oh , I see you just had a birthday,, happy birthday ,, and many more!

[Anne]

Thans a lot Joan .
And yes, you are very right about our health system (and similar to Canada too), only when I look back I cannot believe how much things have deteriorated in the past years .

[kasthor]

anne266 said:

I strongly think that there are four things that any rich country should guarantee to ALL its citizens : a shelter, food, healthcare and education . It is a matter of principles and decency .

Anne, I do not totally agree, I think rich countries, should guarantee its people the possibility to acheive these things on their own (earn enough money to build or buy a house, to afford healthcare and retirement, lower taxes on food etc...) to french people I sound as a pure liberal but the french system has clearly shown it's limits.

Both health care and pension are in deficit, everybody who pays now doesn't pay for himself to retire one day, he pays for those already retired, and the demographic tendancy combined with the longer life expectancy makes it worse every year, the healthcare system has the same problem, it was designed in a time where there were 15 million people less living in France and when medical progress was just a funny idea idea we had... Who would have imagined in the '50s we would be able to design 10M Euros scanners to figure out evry sq inch of the human body...

There HAS to be an evolution in the system, I mean society is not a set phenomenon, it changes all the time, the French altogether have a problem with changings though, which makes it very difficult to initiate an evolution in some things. A very simple example, generic drugs... Most of the doctors are still reluctant (not to talk about the patients) to prescribe these 10x cheaper medications rather than the patented originals just because they are used to using and prescribing them...

Another example, back in the '80s and 90's it was considered a great luxury to retire with 50-55, the economical situation was good enough to allow people to do so, on long term though it is very dangerous, imagine, working for 30 years and being on pension for another 30 (or more... also during that time your need in healthcare raises dramatically...) NOBODY puts equally as much as he earns into pension while he works. In Germany every year the state has to guarantee the pension system by credits of about 9 billion Euros, which usually dumps the budget, A LOT.

I think the american system is not necessarily the way to go, as pointed out previously it is a business like all others but between profit and deficit there has to be a balance somewhere. Now I could go on and explain exactly what my idea is but it would take forever to remodel the french economy...

But to you who think our system is perfect I must say, it is an illusion, if there is no major renovation it will be obsolete in 30-50 years (maybe even less).

[Shoesy]

Kasthor - Excellent post, for which I exalted you.

[jpcat]

Thanks Anne, Joan and Kasthor for the wonderful discussion. No system is perfect (or even sustainable as you point out), but the commitment to universal healthcare is something you have and the US doesn't. That societal commitment is what I envy! My work involves health advocacy in South Africa (which has its own unique problems to be sure), but theoretically, there is care available to all through its government system.

Although there are 40-50 million people in the US with no health insurance, Sicko focuses on Americans who DO have insurance but risk losing their homes and savings when these agencies deny paying for treatment. We have a powerful business lobby in between us and our health care.

We are also facing a shortage of medical personnel, particularly nurses. Right now, the US 'Baby Boomer' generation (the largest ever), is aging and a crisis of care is looming.

[Anne]

Kasthor, you totally misunderstood me .

Yes, we do disagree on the part that you quote from me, as I believe that thoses "basics" should be granted for everyone .

But appart from that specific part, I share the ideas that you express in your post . As I wrote, "the French (health) System isn't economically viable anymore" . But I still don't think that creating a shortage of doctors was a clever solution . Generic drugs are a tiny beginning of a solution, as would be a much tighter control of sick leaves or of the widespread use of ambulances for people who don't need it .

And as I also wrote, "everything else is people's own business" . I am fed up with people in France who think that everything should be provided for by the State . I am more than fed up with the "avantages acquis" . I studied economics, so I would be unforgivable not to understand that our retirement system isn't viable anymore either . I think that things must change in France and that's why I voted for Sarko even though I strongly dislike the man . In short, I am surely less liberal than you are, but that doesn't mean AT ALL that I think that our economic system "is perfect", as you say . Quite the contrary .

Ok, off my soapbox as you guys sometimes write here . Don't really know what it means, but I think that this would be appropriate here .

[kasthor]

anne266 said:

And as I also wrote, "everything else is people's own business" . I am fed up with people in France who think that everything should be provided for by the State . I am more than fed up with the "avantages acquis" . I studied economics, so I would be unforgivable not to understand that our retirement system isn't viable anymore either . I think that things must change in France and that's why I voted for Sarko even though I strongly dislike the man .

We agree to 100%, I quoted that specific part of your post because that is exactly what is misused in our system, behind the shelter of universality nobody dares to question the system and prefers to stick his head in the sand... Or calls in sick

[Becky (Berkeleytravelers)]

Anne, being "on a soapbox" refers to the idea of someone standing on a box (don't know why it's "soap" specifically, there must be some origin that has been lost in the mists of time), lecturing a small group of people who have gathered around (as in Speakers Corner in Hyde Park, London).

[Anne]

OK, thank you Becky, it makes sense now .

[Penny]

Well, I'm bumping this back up due to a newspaper article in Sunday's paper.
The Missouri House passed a new health bill, this will take the place of Medicaid.
begins the end of August- Duh, wouldn't the first of the year be more logical.
2. no info online to get more particulars on changes and coverage.
3. Caseworkers have no info because they haven't gone to class yet.
designed to save the state money by encouraging healthier life-styles. The against representatives voted NO because it does not address the issues of those with chronic illnesses or disabilities.
This is one of the "dumb" parts. covers dental and vision (ie. glasses) if medically necessary. Excuse me do you know anyone who wears glasses for any other reason?
and the worse part is they did not allocate monies in the budget for some of the services.
I am trying to find information to find out how this is going to affect help with drug coverage.
Missourians voted in a new governor in 04, so far he has pushed through two bills changing Medicaid, over 100,000 persons were cut off of Medicaid with the first change and our spenddown was raised almost 5X.
Michael Moore have more "trash" for you to make a sequel with!!

[sistereurope]

We took my MIL to see Sicko last night. It was good...but the best part was when my husband just said "now I have to think about moving to France again"...WOO HOO!!!! ;D I love Michael Moore forever now !!!!
Think I can hold him to it??!

[Becky (Berkeleytravelers)]

Sister, you just have to let him keep thinking it's all his idea and that you're only willing to consider it because "he" wants it!

[sistereurope]

Oh yeah Becky...I'm gonna work this one!!!! ;D

[susanb]

Oh Penny, Don't EVER feel guilty about your trip to Paris. Just think how much it did for you psychologically. You can't deny yourself everything because you have a chronic illness. Maybe you can't do as much, maybe you rest more, maybe you sit in a Paris garden somewhere with a good book, but you are there. Real or in a dream!!! Dreams are good too. Planning a trip can keep you busy and happy. I don't think anyone here questioned your disability and going to Paris. Many people who are diasabled do indeed take a holiday. It's not against the law. Plan well!!