Rude American or cultural mishap?

[phread]

Last night SO and I went for drinks at our local wine bar. It is hot out these days and the tables were spilling over the sidewalk in a strictly illegal way. One table in particural as seperate from the crowd. There was a vacant table just two seats away and we jumped on it.

I took about two seconds to realize the woman at the isolated table was an American and that she was not pleased. She was huffing and puffing over her glass of wine, making all kinds of grimaces and whining. It took her a while, but she eventually got the attention of the waiter and we understood that she was not able to drink the wine because it was just too full of sediment. His response was slow. She was clearly hot, frustrated and tired of waiting for his attention. She immediately began accusing the waiter of treating her like an unwelcome American, raising her voice to accuse him of treating her like an ignorant tourist, while in fact she has lived here for 10 months and had never once seen a glass with sediment. She stood up and threatened to take her custom elsewhere. The waiter complied by immediately removing her setting and she stormed off.

As she left the waiter looked deeply into the glass, shrugged his shoulders, exclaiming, "she's not wrong."

SO and I were thrilled, as that meant we could enjoy the plate of smoked salmon that was just heading out of the bar for her. The waiter was thrilled to get rid of a testy American AND turn the table over to a party of two, at the same time. The only looser was the poor woman, who had taken zero time to consider cultural differences. What could she have done differently?
1) Try to use at least one word in French. Especially for long term visitors, this is essential if one is to be taken seriously.
2) Do NOT accuse, state or claim that there is a problem. Instead, simply present your situation and ask for a solution. Waiters here are professionals and it works best if you defer to their expertise. For example, "This is is strange, I've never seen so much floating stuff in my glass, can you please tell me more about this wine to explain why it is there?"

Hope this helps future thirsty visitors. Bottoms up!

[Becky (Berkeleytravelers)]

Thanks for the reminder that there are many ways to handle a situation, some of which might actually result in a solution acceptable to all! I have long believed that the best travel accessory that anyone (especially an American!) can bring is a good attitude and a willingness to proceed on the assumption that people are decent and willing to help, if one just makes the effort to communicate. I can't believe that someone could spend 10 months in Paris and not know any French, or expect everyone in a restaurant to converse with her in English -- so my first reaction is that she's just a very unpleasant person who thinks everything should be done her way, on her terms. There are people of that type in every culture -- glad she didn't stick around, leaving you with a much nicer atmosphere in which to enjoy your evening!

[sistereurope]

Phread...I might have been tempted to say something like: "People who do not want to 'be treated like an unwelcome ignorant tourist' should not act like one!"

Becky you hit the nail on the head...rude behavior knows no bounds. But I agree with you that it seems telling that someone would have lived there for 10 months and not made an attempt to speak French. That's unbelievable!!

[Ray(aka) tripnebraska]

Phread,
You cite a great solution, in asking the waiter to tell you about the wine.
I think in that situation, I'd be most likely to chug that glass, and order something else to have with my salmon.

[amy321]

Since this lady claimed to not be ignorant, I'm very surprised that she did not seem to know that sediment is usually an indication of a wine that was not only made many years ago but made with extraordinary care to maintain its quality and character over time. Today, many, but not all, wines are filtered prior to bottling, eliminating the risk of pouring sediment deposits from the bottle. Filtering a wine prior to bottling, however, can diminish the flavor and complexity of red wines -- especially those intended for long cellar aging. Consequently, many French reds from Bordeaux, Burgundy and the Rhône, as well as some premium new World red wines, still are bottled without filtering. Excessive sediment can indicate a problem (certainly so if the wine also doesn't taste right). If it tastes OK, the problem could simply be that she was poured a glass from the bottom of the bottle and a polite request for a pour from the top of a fresh bottle would suffice. Decanting is also a remedy, but I’m not sure your average wine bar decants. If a wine doesn’t taste right (e.g., it’s oxidized, corked, etc.) a diplomatic way to return it is to invite the waiter to taste it also. Anyone from any culture who claims to be knowledgeable about wine would know these things. Therefore, she was rude.

[Shoesy]

Amy - I have just exalted you for your nice explanation about wine. Up 'till now the only thing I knew about wine was that it could be red or white......... and the fact that I have no desire to drink it.

[Happygoin]

You're right, Shoesy. I double-exalt you, Amy, for your explanation that even us non-wine drinkers could understand.

[holger]

;D

Phread,

Nice suggestions for resolving a problem. There are ways and then there are ways for dealing with difficulties. It is always more productive to choose a way that will bring a satisfactory outcome.

Her loss was your gain.

[les]

What bugs me about these folks is that they automatically assume that the waiter's inattention is due to their nationality. It is so not the case. I was once in the Lux. Gardens having a drink with two French friends. We could not for the LIFE of us get the waiter to come to our table. He was simply not interested. My assumption is he was sick and tired of waiting on tables in the Luxembourg Gardens day in and day out.

When I said "What is going on?" and an Englishwoman next to us heard me, she looked at me and said "We're tourists. They hate toursits here. He's avoiding everyone on purpose." It was just this huge generalization and assumption. My French friends laughed...

[amy321]

Becky, you're absolutely right: she was rude and it was over something that's just not that big a deal. It would be like throwing a fit because there's a rind on your camembert cheese or a pit in your olive. Just ridiculous.

Shoesy, I wasn't a big fan of wine either until I met my boyfriend. He's quite the oenophile and I've learned what I know about wine from him. He knows my taste and is able to pick out something that I will like.

Les, I took my boyfriend to Paris for the first time 2 years ago. Not knowing the culture, he was uneasy with some of the differences until I explained them to him, i.e., that the French, generally speaking, aren't as cheery as Americans--salepeople, waiters, often don't greet you all smiley and bubbly or say "have a nice day!" as is frequently done in the US. I think many Americans expect the French to have the same demeanor and they just don't. Vive la difference! [Maybe in preparation for a trip to France, people should be required to watch some angst-filled French movies.... like the Edith Piaf bio that just came out] BTW, my boyfriend now wants to move to France.

Thank you all for the exalts!

[andi]

Whilst I can agree that differences in culture do indeed exist I am of the opinion that it is more the upbringing of the individual in any nationality that makes all the difference. I have always encouraged my children to be polite, patient and grateful and to know that everyone is an equal regardless of background. I know many a rude and ignorant Englishman to match the American, Italian and Spaniard etc. You reap what you sow and in this case the individual missed out on a wonderful ambiance and meal and probably sat alone at home with a glass of tap water!

[Roniece]

You reap what you sow ..... hear, hear Andi!

[joan1]

Well , other then the fact she rasied her voice( always a no no) and didn't even attempt a word in french, I think she did the right thing. She left. If she thought the waiter could give rats ass if she left is another issue. LOL

I am giving the lady a break ( which many of you are seeming to not do, although you seem happy to give the waiter the benefit of the doubt) ,, Phread did say she appeared very hot , tired and frustrated. That she had waited some time for attention,, and that from indications we are not talking about a bit of floating cork, but ALOT of sediment.

She was rude in how she ranted about " being treated like an ignorant tourist",, but the waiter could have also perhaps not made her feel like she had no reason to complain, when in fact, after she left, he did concede her glass was indeed full of sediment.

So , a cultural misunderstanding, yes,, but a good waiter would not have served such a glass( Amy, I am assuming she had not ordered a fancy type of wine, just house whatever)


We all love Paris, but it is ok to concede that some of the servers there do not always have the best skills in service( any serverss anywhere for that matter). Living in a tourist town, I can tell you there is a phenomina called " tourist burnout" where anyone working with the public just gets really sick of the same dumb questions,, and the same misunderstandings, and the same requests ( for instance many Americans would request Bloody Marys for breakfast when I worked at a nice hotel, due to our liqour laws we couldn't serve booze before a certain time, and some people really dumped on me for that,, I could always be nice about it, but evetually you do just feel like saying " oh shut up , it is the way it is here" !!LOL

Anyways, I have played Devils advocate long enough here.
I believe both parties in this dispute handled themselves less then brillantly.

[parisfan2 (was 'paris-fantic')]

As usual phread a good anecdote about Paris, well discussed. Nice to find where you all moved on to!
This maybe not the right place to add this, but like many of you I have drifted here from TA having found Paris was not actually getting discussed much and basic questions getting very short thrift. The final straw was finding myself being quite rude to someone (and suitably sorry afterwards I hasten to add!) – out of character and uncalled for.
From my first look here around it does seem things are up for proper discussion, which is good.

[Becky (Berkeleytravelers)]

Joan -- thanks for being the voice in favor of a balanced view. I agree that the waiter was at fault as well, my quarrel is not with the fact that the woman wanted something done about the problem but just how she went about it. And, per your further comment, I suspect that Paris is probably the "tourist burnout capital" of the world! When I hear about things like this (and when I hear people complain that "the French are rude to Americans", however, I just picture how it would go in the US if someone who spoke another language (with the possible exception of Spanish, in California and the Southwest) engaged in comparable behavior - spoke only in another language with no attempt to communicate in the local language, and then got really upset and abusive when not understood. That said, thanks for pointing out that it was not entirely one-sided in this particular exchange!

[phread]

For the record... this was not the case of "tourist burnout" or a poor waiter. This was a VERY busy guy running around serving about 50 people... even his regulars had to wait!

[Becky (Berkeleytravelers)]

Thanks phread, that's a useful bit of additional information in assessing what was going on here. I think most of us probably assumed that he was busy, just from your description -- I don't think I've ever been in a cafe (except in really off hours) when the staff wasn't running around madly (and they always seem to be running the other direction, although that's likely because these establishments always seem understaffed compared to US norms).

[joan1]

Since I have actually worked in a tourist restaurant ,, I am very understanding when I see a waiter running around, most likely trying to handle more then is fair( so many places( this is for anywhere) do not staff appropriately, forcing staff to work twice as hard) ,,
I do hate it when you get slow service and you see staff gossiping at the waiters station!!

I always feel like getting up and helping when I see staff that are too busy,, and in some places I have even gotten up and done the coffee refills myself( when you are sitting near the coffee pot station) ,, LOL, I always explain that I feel for them.!!

I was a dining room supervisor years ago,, so it is easy for me to tell when staff are really trying to keep up, and when they are just doing a crappy job. And , I know tipping is not a huge issue in Europe, but as it is in North America( especially States where people regularily tip rather well) ,, I never ding the server when I see they are doing the best they can,, but slackers beware!!!LOL