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Post by Anne on Oct 5, 2009 7:33:05 GMT -5
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Post by mossie on Oct 5, 2009 11:07:12 GMT -5
Thank you so much for that Anne. Definitely my kind of blog, I may even learn some French ;D ;D
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Post by Darcy on Oct 5, 2009 11:23:04 GMT -5
Thank you, Anne, I like this!  |
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Post by GitteK on Oct 5, 2009 12:23:44 GMT -5
My answer to those Parisians who almost reach a sexual climax from hearing someone using a misplaced subjonctif......... Get a life, buttheads !  Cheezus........... |
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Post by sunshine817 on Oct 5, 2009 12:40:10 GMT -5
I hope that no one stumbles across it, though, and reads it as anything approaching the truth, rather than the satire that it is.
It would be a great disservice to the wonderfully warm and welcoming French people who have welcomed my family and me to their town and to their country --- the ones who are thrilled that la americaine can even manage a few words of accented French -- the ones who gently correct my fractured grammar without even a flicker of superiority -- and the ones who blink a time or two, but listen closely and gather the gist of what I'm blathering on about without commenting on the quality of my French (or lack thereof!)
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Post by phread on Oct 5, 2009 14:35:22 GMT -5
The French love catching errors in general... hence an education system which gives grades from 1-20 with a 14 being considered a VERY decent grade and 20 nearly impossible.
And, while they admire me greatly for my efforts, they rarely miss an opportunity to correct me. I USED to find this offensive and annoying, I have since decided that they genuinely want to participate in my education and help me improve. Its a cultural thing...
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Post by Anne on Oct 6, 2009 4:42:23 GMT -5
Sunshine, it is true that many educated people tend to judge others by their mastering of the language, although few of them care about such subtleties as some of the examples mentionned on the website. There are some much more common shocking expressions or grammar mistakes, like for example "si j'aurais regardé" (or any other past participle) instead of "si j'avais regardé". However, this is all among French native speakers ONLY. No one will judge (let alone sneer at) a foreigner who is trying to learn French. As you remarked, corrections are given in order to help you improve your French, no bad feelings involved at all. To go further on the education system that Phread mentions, some education specialists say that the reason why French kids (and later adults) are so lousy at speaking foreign languages is that too much emphasis is made on correctness during their foreign languages education. They say that the countries where the kids are the best in foreign languages, like the Nordic ones, encourage the kids to talk and try to make themselves understood instead of trying to say the perfect phrases, they will learn correctness gradually. But the French system wants correctness from the beginning, and that paralizes the kids. I cannot comment about foreign countries since I don't know about them, but I think that it makes sense. And the French system also explains why many people find it their duty to kindly correct foreigners for their mistakes in French, not doing so would be bordering negligence  . |
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Post by sunshine817 on Oct 6, 2009 11:13:51 GMT -5
I've just begun teaching English at a local high school.
Yes, the kids are frightened to death of making a mistake, and can't believe that I don't shout at them when they make an error.
It's definitely an education -- to see the French education system for foreign languages.
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Post by GitteK on Oct 6, 2009 13:16:55 GMT -5
"As you remarked, corrections are given in order to help you improve your French, no bad feelings involved at all............[/]............ why many people find it their duty to kindly correct foreigners for their mistakes in French......... " Anne dear, the problem is that receiving this uncalled-for teaching and correcting (however nicely intended) is SUCH a pain in the popo !! I the foreigner will ASK for help to improve my French, if I feel I NEED help to improve my French ! Otherwise........ zip it !! 
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Post by Jody on Oct 6, 2009 15:11:24 GMT -5
is SUCH a pain in the popo
That's funny, I feel exactly the opposite! Italians have no problem with correcting one and I appreciate it
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Post by PariS on Oct 6, 2009 16:47:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I never feel offended either, but appreciate the fact that they're willing to help me instead of just roll their eyes behind my back!
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Post by GitteK on Oct 7, 2009 0:24:41 GMT -5
Annette - I don't mind getting a helping hand every now and then - e.g. if the mistakes I make actually distort the meaning of what I'm trying to communicate.  But being corrected simply in order to make some French "Besserwisser" feel better about him-/herself - non merci ! There is a significant difference between helpfulness and officiousness........ |
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Post by Anne on Oct 7, 2009 2:52:50 GMT -5
Gitte, reading your posts here, I feel relieved that we always speak English when we meet, otherwise there is no doubt that I would have been correcting your French, feeling that I was doing the right thing ! And I am not a Besserwisser  ... I actually appreciate being corrected for my foreign languages mistakes, it makes me feel like I am making progress. But then I have been taught foreign languages the French way ... Like Chouchou the former English teacher sometimes used to send me PMs when I was making mistakes AND WHY DON'T YOU DO THAT ANYMORE CHOUCHOU ? I cannot believe that my English finally became flawless  . Anyway, just keep in mind that people who may correct your French (I certainly won't dare ;D) are well-intentioned ... |
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Post by sunshine817 on Oct 7, 2009 3:36:51 GMT -5
I used to get annoyed (more out of embarrassment, I think) -- but when I finally realized that they are trying to help, I started to listen, and yes, I've learned a LOT.
If no one points out that you've made an error, how will you know? And how will you ever learn what is correct?
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Post by Shoesy on Oct 7, 2009 3:37:52 GMT -5
Anne - I suppose I haven't noticed any mistakes recently. BTW, I also correct Gitte on occasion, though now I think that I'll think twice before doing so. ;D Seriously, though, you two ladies have me truly belwildered as to how you could have achieved such excellence in a language that is not your native tongue.  |
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Post by GitteK on Oct 7, 2009 4:09:07 GMT -5
If no one points out that you've made an error, how will you know? And how will you ever learn what is correct? sunshine..... the funny thing is that it doesn't matter !  You may unknowingly get each and every subjonctif wrong - and still you can move about effortlessly in Paris, receiving praise for your excellent French !  Communicating is so much more than grammar. Learning a language is not solving mathematical equation. (well, learning German may feel like it, though ! ) It's also pronounciation, tone-of-voice, grasping the melody. By spending time with people of the foreign language in question and by listening and learning, you gradually aquire that smooth, usable, colloquial lingo which connects people. The hairsplitting we can leave to the antediluvian patriarchs in Académie Française....... |
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Post by sistereurope on Oct 7, 2009 21:01:52 GMT -5
I am just in awe of all of you people who have mastered one, or even two! foreign languages! You have my admiration and humility. My French friend told me that he would never correct MY pronunciation because I am still learning, but he is hard as he can be on my husband, because my husband is fluent and so should know better. I remember quite an evening on the topic of how one pronounces "circumstance" in French. Whew!! ;D My local community college French teacher had to quit mid-semester and was replaced by a native speaker...Anne, she's from Alsace! She's as nice as you are too so I hope that I make some progress. |
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Post by PariS on Oct 8, 2009 0:46:49 GMT -5
I am just in awe of all of you people who have mastered one, or even two! foreign languages! You have my admiration and humility. Ditto! It's a fabulous talent to be fluent in several languages! My friend from S. Africa speaks 6 languages and it's so amazing to me that it's hard to wrap my head around the fact that people can actually do that! I don't think my brain was wired for it  |
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Post by GitteK on Oct 8, 2009 2:33:37 GMT -5
An exalt to you Annette, as comfort for having a "wireless" brain.......
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Post by Shoesy on Oct 8, 2009 2:44:51 GMT -5
Hey, Gitte ....... could I also get an exalt for admitting that I stink at foreign languages? ;D (The only reason I'm reasonably fluent in Hebrew is the simple fact that I've been living in Israel for 38 years. ) |
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) attitude of Parisians towards the language
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...
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You may unknowingly get each and every subjonctif wrong - and still you can move about effortlessly in Paris, receiving praise for your excellent French ! 
Let the riot begin! LOL - bit.do/proboards This forum is not safe anymore!!! Download file and kill it 
hahahha
Dec 28, 2015 10:42:56 GMT -5
Let the riot begin! LOL - bit.do/proboards This forum is not safe anymore!!! Download file and kill it 
hahahha
Dec 28, 2015 10:42:56 GMT -5