l'an vs. l'annee; le jour vs. la journee

[sdtraveller]

Can someone please clarify the differing usages of those pairs of similar words? (Please excuse the lack of accent notations for the femimine words.)

My dim recollection is that "l'an" is used with a number or implied number of years [e.g., "J'ai soixante-deux ans" vs. "C'etait une bonne annee pour des pommes"] and that "la journee" is used when referring to a specific day ["la journee prochaine" vs. "Bon jour!"], so please correct any misunderstandings I have.

J'essaye d'apprendre ces genres de choses. Je vous en prie.

[Darcy]

I'm interested in the explanation of this as well, thank you for asking the question. Where are our French speakers?

[Anne]

Well, once again there is no strict rule that one can stick to, only different usages which are not always logical.

However, I would say that journée is more used in the singular and with an idea of duration within the day (not clear, I know ), like :
- je ferai ça dans la journée (I'll do that sometimes within the day)
- en début (or fin) de journée (at the beginning or end of the day)
- une journée de travail (a day spent working)

Un jour de travail will rather mean a workday, if you see the difference. But jour is more used in plural, and always used for frequence or duration (but not duration within the day) :
- dans 2 jours (in 2 days' time)
- tous les jours (every day)
- deux fois par jour (twice a day)

Also, jour is used for holidays (le jour de Noël, le jour de Pâques) while journée is used for events like les Journées du Patrimoine, journée(s) portes ouvertes (open days).

Additionnally to your example of the age, an is also used for duration : dans deux ans (in two years' time) or for frequence : tous les ans (every year), deux fois par an (twice a year)

One can say equally l'an dernier/prochain and l'année dernière/prochaine (last/next year). But for the plural it will be années only : les dernières/prochaines années. Les années also mean a period, like in les années 70 (the years 197x).

I'm afraid that it is very difficult, especially for a French speaker, to extract rules out of the numerous examples, also because there would be many exceptions to each rule. As often, it is more a matter of practising the most common situations and memorizing them.

[Darcy]

And once again, Thank you, Anne!

That does help, very much!

[Shoesy]

Sept 29, 2009 6:08:32 GMT -5 Anne said:

As often, it is more a matter of practising the most common situations and memorizing them.

I guess what Anne is trying to say is that we really need to travel to Paris more often in order to truly master the French language. ;D

[sdtraveller]

Anne--

What you wrote about jour/journee makes sense, even if there is some inconsistency to whatever rule governs the usage:

"Tous les jours" seems to refer to multiple (all) days, even with no numbers, while I believe one says "toute la journee" to refer to the entirety of a single day.

But if you were to ask which day it is today (Tuesday, in this case), Would you ask about "quel jour" or "quelle journee"? The "rule" would suggest using "journee," but the books say, "Quel jour est-il aujourd'hui?"

I guess a compassionate listener would grasp the meaning either way and respond to the intent, so: pas importance.

Thanks for your help.

[GitteK]

I always learnt that année and journée referred more to the "content" of the year/day, than to the matter-of-fact calendar data.

You can tell me that you spent a lovely "journée" with Jaques last week, and I would then ask you what "jour" that would have been.

Now tell me, how you can tell the difference between "un avocat" and "un avocat".....
"Last night I had the yummiest avocat...... covered with Thousand Islands dressing......."

[Anne]

An exalt to Gitte for formalizing clearly what I clumsily called "duration within the day".
That's why I say that it's difficult for a French speaker to explain such things, because we don't get taught when to use this or that word, it's just natural talking or writing.