etips from Dummies.com on Paris, etc.

[Penny]

links to good articles on Paris, France and other French things.

These are the links in the etips I get from Dummies.com

At the bottom of each article are links to other subjects. such as in the Making Small Talk link is another link to "Enjoying French Meals"

Dining In Paris
www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/Dining-in-Paris.id-5168.html?cid=articleFeature

Understanding Wine Labels

www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/Understanding-Wine-Labels.id-474.html

Castles and Palaces
One in Paris , lists the miles from Paris on the remainder

www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/Exploring-France-s-Best-Castles-and-Palaces.id-5273.html

Small Talk in French
very good pronunciation guide for everyday words and sentences.
This one is definitely a keeper for my Paris filewww.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/Making-Small-Talk-in-French.id-1161.html

[Ellen]

Is that tip really true about everything should be eaten with a knife and fork??
I know when I was in Paris I never called the waite Garcon, even though in all the guide books it would tell you to do this. I just thought it sounded very rude, glad now that I didn't.

[Truffaut]

Ell,
I didn't actually read the document in the link, but generally yes, people do eat most everything with a knife and fork. The fork is held in the left hand (upside down) and the knife is held in the right hand. You can use both hands at the same time (don't put one in your lap) and you don't switch the utensils from one hand to another. That said, nobody's gonna stand up in the middle of the restaurant and point to the tourist if you choose to eat in the way you are accustomed.

[luckyluc]

I have seen club sandwicks and burgers eaten with a knife and fork, so yes as Douglas mentionned most everything.

[Ellen]

lol! my question must've sounded really odd. Funnily enough I do use a knife and fork. I was thinking of bread etc.

[mez]

Jul 23, 2008 16:34:43 GMT -5 Truffaut said:

The fork is held in the left hand (upside down) and the knife is held in the right hand.

Excuse my ignorance, but doesn't everyone hold a knife and fork like this?

[Becky (Berkeleytravelers)]

Mez, the difference is that in the US that's done only when cutting something with the knife, and then the knife is put down and the fork is switched to the right hand (assuming, of course that the person is right handed). In Europe it seems much more common for people to just hold both utensils throughout the meal, and use the fork with the left hand even if they are right handed. (But what's with the thing of not putting a hand in the lap? I've always been taught that NOT doing that is rude, i.e., keeping the other one on the table or whatever!)

[sunshine817]

I taught myself to use utensils in the European style years ago when I realized one night at a business dinner that I was the ONLY one changing my fork and knife from hand to hand.

I've heard stories (never found proof) that they had to teach American spies in WWII to eat in the European style because no matter how good someone's cover and accent were, they'd give themselves away the minute they picked up knife and fork to eat. After losing numerous spies, they figured out that the Yank spies were outing themselves, completely innocently.

[Darcy]

Becky, putting your hand in your lap is another North Americanism. Generally, or mostly, Europeans do not do this.

Not having to switch the fork back and forth is just one of the reasons I love to eat in Europe! Unfortunately, in the US and Canada, using the fork in the left hand is considered uncouth. Eating European style makes much more sense to me.

[GitteK]

Eating with your fork only (in the right hand) after having your food cut out into mouthfuls is considered to be for very small children only, who have not yet fully developed their motor coordination skills. After the age of 6 (something like that, at least here in DK) kids are taught to eat "nicely" using fork and knife simultaneously, as this is part of learning grown-up table manners. So you may get an odd glance and a smile (I for one can't help looking, because the American way to do it looks so "exotic"

And no, you do not put your hand back into your lap. In fact in France it is considered rather suspicious,
because what are you DOING down there !!??
Playing sexy games with your dinner partner, peut-être ??
Or worse: loading your revolver in order to shoot the chef for having overcooked your foie gras ??

And besides: food in Paris is so delicous that you will have zero incentive to place your hands anywhere else than reaaaallly close to your plate, wine glass and bread basket !! ;D

Here is another useful link for firsstimers, dealing with other unwritten rules of basic etiquette:
www.secretsofparis.com/with-parisians/

[sistereurope]

This is ONE incidence where being a left handed American was helpful! ;D I've always held my fork in my left hand, so learning keeping the knife in my right wasn't too much of a stretch...I do it all the time now and notice that most people here still do not, even the left-handers.

[sunshine817]

And sister, I manage to wreck everyone's plans for restaurants -- many people in the US plan for who "eats right" and who "eats left" in a "cosy" restaurant, because it helps avoid bumping elbows with the person next to you. (yes, yes, if everyone ate with their utensils in the same hand, this wouldn't be an issue!)

I'm terribly right-handed, so most people plan for me to "eat right" (holding my fork in my right hand) so it usually means I have to switch places with someone before we're all settled to where we won't be bumping each other all night.

I also had a European colleague who commented that he is amazed that Americans manage to eat anything, as we're always juggling the silverware instead of enjoying the food!

[GitteK]

sunshine, in Europe there is absolutely NO such thing as bumping your elbows into the person sitting next to you Reason: the second thing you learn as a kid in "Mom's Tablemanners Academy" (after having learnt how to wield knife and fork elegantly at the same time) is to keep your elbows tightly and perfectly close to your body flanks ! There is NO tolerance from Mom of flapping your wings, while eating !

[sistereurope]

sunshine, I always try to sit at the end of a table when eating out with a group, so I can totally relate to the bump!
Gitte - we also are taught to keep elbows close and especially to keep them off the table...but all that switching of silverware requires some arm movement. ;D

[GitteK]

sister - in fact eating with your fork only is considered VERY rural when done by an adult -
and trust me, it will cause more than one discerning eyebrow to raise, even at ordinary middleclass dinnertables. It's not as bad as burbing, but it comes pretty close.....

[sistereurope]

I did learn that from our lovely Italian exchange student before I went to Europe for the first time (one of the infamous Italians in my Paris report pics). So I guess I pass the European Miss Manners test ;D

[sunshine817]

and keep in mind, Gitte, that when/if/as you visit the US, YOU will be the odd one out, and there are those who will think that your table manners are not up to what they should be.

Neither way is right or wrong in their individual settings, just different...more cultural sensitivity, doing as the Romans, etc., etc., etc.

[Truffaut]

I've pretty much fully adopted the European way of holding the utensils all the time. It makes so much ergonomic sense.

[Laidback]

Jul 24, 2008 14:08:36 GMT -5 Truffaut said:

I've pretty much fully adopted the European way of holding the utensils all the time. It makes so much ergonomic sense.

Through the years I have done the same, except I refuse to eat a good, custom made cheeseburger with anything other than my hands...American custom for an American classic .

I still have a little problem eating peas with my fork upside down and left handed

[Penny]

LL peas I don't have to worry about that, I don't eat peas except in vegetable soup
which brings up another question. What is the proper way to eat soup in France/Europe.