TA getting nasty?

[keylimejet]

All I've got to say is, thank goodness we've got each other! ;D I may still use TA for other destinations, as their other forums don't seem to be as nasty. For Paris, I have the best experts right here on OPF, and no meanyheads!

[Anne]

One could logically conclude that their primary interest is ...not in offering a free public forum as a goodwill gesture to the traveling public.

Mind you, this is what I naïvely believed for quite a few years ...

Thanks Penny and Sarastro for your explanations . Now I understand why TA somtimes includes Expedia reviews in some of its hotel reviews on French TA in order to increase the number of reviews . I had just thought that they must have made an agreement with Expedia in order to be allowed to use some of their reviews, but now I understand that it was not just a one-shot agreement .

[toutou]

"Recently, I read a "destination expert" (or perhaps is was just a frequent poster) who had written a comment that he/she was unable to qualify certain elements of his/here complaint when reporting an inappropriate post. Another expert responded that she was still able to detail her recent complain. It was after reading this exchange that I made my earlier comments here as a quick observation of perhaps why so many posts are deleted."


Yes, you might be referring to Metromole and me (not sure). We had a similar conversation. He was unable to post specifics about a complaint and I was/am. For a brief while, I too could not write my complaint, I had to choose from a pop up window of choices. That changed after a few weeks. I have no idea why. It was long before T/A asked me to become a Destination Expert.

As to Destination Experts having control over ANY threads. No, we do not. I was invited to become a Provence DE about 1 month ago. At first, I declined as I do not feel I am an expert on anything ! However, after having been asked again and told I could be a DE specifically for the Dept. of the Vaucluse (where I live), I agreed. Still, T/A did not even have the Vaucluse in their database, so they have had to add it. In the meantime, they have listed me as a DE for Saumane de Vaucluse (a tiny town in this dept.). Go figure. I have no idea what my experience will be as being a DE. Perhaps I'll be fired..

There are often posts on T/A that are rude and uncalled for. I have no idea why people make these posts, but as someone else here said, the Internet allows people to make comments in total anonymity. This invites lots of mean and angry people, an easy place to lash out hostility. Some people get a thrill out of causing trouble and don't seem to mind hurting someone's feelings along the way. Totally uncalled for and yes, as someone else here said, sometimes hard to resist making your own shock to the system post. I have always tried to avoid that.

I don't post here much as I feel it is primarily a Paris forum. I am far from a Paris expert (though I certainly love Paris). I do like to look in and see what folks have to say. I always enjoy Gitte's lively and informative posts, among the others.

Being a Paris forum, with me living in Provence and me not really seeing France as the most perfect place in the world might make me quite disliked here, so I just enjoy reading and keep my typing fingers still, unless I feel I can contribute something positive. That is why I wanted to reply to this thread. I hope you all don't mind.

[Shoesy]

Hi there Toutou! You are welcome to pop in as often or as seldom as you like. You needn't be an expert on anything. I know almost nothing about Paris, but after being there for 2 short visits, I can honestly say that I am smitten with that city.

Everyone posts for different reasons, and it's obvious that we are fulfilling some kind of a need by doing so. Perhaps it's to give or receive info., or perhaps it's merely a way of communicating with a bunch of wonderful posters, who are actually quite different from each other. No matter what our agenda is, we come here in order to participate in a very friendly forum, where each other's needs, dreams and interests become our own.


Hope to see you here more often, but it, of course, is entirely up to you.

[sunshine817]

Toutou, your posts are always well-balanced and informative, and I agree with the others that you are welcome here -- we sometimes wander far away from Paris as a topic, and had a fairly long discussion about Provence just last week!

[keylimejet]

Toutou - we're thrilled to see you on OPF! I've used your expertise in my visits to Provence, and have stayed twice at Les Carmes, which I think you're familiar with. I've also got your tip sheet saved.

Please hang out with us anytime! I'm far from a Paris expert myself (3 short visits so far). It's such a nice group over here, and while there is plenty of great Paris information, it's also just generally fun and interesting.

[Happygoin]

I have to reply to one thing you said, Toutou. It's an altogether different experience being a tourist in Paris and living in France. It's the same in the US, I suppose. We may love it here, but we are also very concious of our warts . We don't have to see the warts of Paris when we're just visiting. It doesn't mean we don't know they're there. Just that we don't live with them on a daily basis as you do.

You're welcome here any time, regardless of your point of view. In fact, you can probably add some balance, as Anne does on occasion. She can bring us all down to earth in our blind love of Paris sometimes. And that's a good thing.

[luckyluc]

What Happygoing said! ;D

[toutou]

Thanks to you all. You are all very kind, which I did already know, but still....

Happygoin, you are exactly right. Life in a country can be far far different than holidaying in it. I often feel I could write a long (and most likely boring) book on my life in France. The first half would be about all the good, funny, unusual things and the wonderful people (but that's been done a thousand times), the second half would be about the hard to believe stupid, bureaucratic insanity, napoleonic laws which still exist today, the wonderful people who, when working in offical govt jobs become nasty robots from another world, the papework ooooohhhh the paperwork, banks who neither take cash deposits nor give you your money in cash (new law, not napoleonic), being considered guilty until proved innocent, having to BUY the pool security law in order to be sure you comply, having to pay up to .34 cents (and actually sometimes more) to call any 'customer service' phone line, such as an ISP, airline, etc., the lack of customer service .... etc., etc., etc., etc.

My head is hurting now.

You get my drift. I might be a bit of a sore thumb.

I'll try to keep in line.

[sistereurope]

toutou,

I think that all of us here can take it ;D The grass is always greener, so feel free to post the pros and cons of life in France. I for one would love to hear your point of view because I am one of those Americans who dream of perhaps buying some property there one day...it's a fantasy, but rest assured that I know that there are unpleasant realities so I would love to hear it all - the good bad and ugly.

All that to say that I see your point. Just remember where many of us Americans are coming from. I know that I can speak for many of us in the states when I say that lately the grass over there has been looking a LOT greener than here, so you'll have to forgive us our fantasies. I mean really, I for one would trade spending $.34 for customer assistance if it meant that my government would provide free education and or better, more affordable health care. And don't get me started on the Iraq war or other atrocities that we've dealt with for the past 8 years! You get my drift

No matter what and ALL that aside, I do hope that you would feel 100% welcome to share your vast knowledge of Provence and to join in our Paris love fest.

[suzanne]

Toutou,
Glad to see you here. You have just taught me something new. I did not know about the charges to make service calls. A few years ago AF lost our luggage. The man who I spoke to at the airport gave me a number to call to check on the luggage. We kept calling from our apartment and could never get through. After being compleley frustrated we thought to call on our cell phone and got right through to someone. So you have just cleared up that little mystery

Thanks,
Suzanne

[cigalechanta]

toutou, I'm like you in not knowing Paris as much a others here as my heart ls in Provence where I had been going for many years.I haven't been back since my husband died before Christmas and I don't drive to go back to see friends in who live in places where there are no buses or trains to get there. Last week my best friend in Provence died. He lived in Eygalieres. We always stayed in the Vaucluse. I don't go to TA but I'll check you out there to get my Vaucluse fix.

[toutou]

Thanks to you all. I really appreciate your understanding.

Cigale - next time you are in the Vaucluse, send me an email. I am always here.

As to the education system. That is another one of those, 'don't get me started subjects.'

And the healthcare issue too. Who's that American guy that made the movie 'Sicko'? I always forget his name. He's the one that goes all over the world telling everyone healthcare is FREE in France. Nothing could be further from the truth - unless you are on welfare wages. Everyone in France pays a minimum of 8% of their taxable income for 70% health cover. Some things are covered at a higher rate. Is the system better than the U.S. ? Well, in my opinion, yes it is. The U.S. has a horrible track record in health cover.

However, is it FREE in France - NO ! Unless you are on welfare wages or have certain handicaps or disabilities. The average 'Joe' that has a taxable household income of say 30,000 euros will pay approximately 2,400 euros per year for coverage. If you make 100,000 euros you'll pay approx. 8,000, etc., etc., etc.

It always annoys me when that guy says over and over and over that healthcare in France is free.. All he has to do is go to the website - CPAM and read.

[Becky (Berkeleytravelers)]

Toutou - you're thinking of Michael Moore, and just so you know, that's far from the only thing he gets totally wrong. But, that's very interesting because I've had the same impression (and not just from that source). In any event all health care systems are "paid" whether by taxes or by payroll deductions or whatever. What you are describing is obviously a tax-based payment system, since apparently more is paid by those who make more, but for the same services and coverages. Thanks for the clarification.

[Anne]

No, no, it's not a tax-based payment system at all, Securité Sociale contribution is deducted directly from people's salary (payroll deduction) by their employer (who then also pays an employer's contribution based on the employee's salary) . Both contributions are proportional to the employee's salary, up to a certain limit ("plafond de la Sécurité Sociale") . Exactly the same system applies to the retirement contributions .
An employee is covered, but also his/her spouse/official companion and children, with no additional contribution .
People with a serious and long disease (cancer, diabetes, multiple sclerosis, AIDS, etc ... ) get 100% coverage for anything related to their disease .

That's not saying that the system is perfect . One of the main problem IMO is the lack of some types of doctors (hospital ones, countryside GPs, etc ...) since some official morons in the 70s decided that the best way to prevent the Sécurité Sociale spendings from growing was to cut the number of doctors by creating a very tight numerus clausus in medicine universities ! So the doctors retirering now are replaced by fewer doctors, while at the same time the population is growing and getting older . So stupid and short-sighted !

[denise]

:)We also have a similar system in the UK.... Aprox 9% of my salary is deducted for "national insurance" contributions and the employer also pays a percentage. So over the years I have paid in a LOTof money.

This entitles me to "free" health care. GP, specialists, hospitals everything. You do not have to have paid into the scheme to be entitled to get healthcare, and benefits. Although you do have to live in the UK for 6 months or be a tourist with a reciprocal agreement.

The quality of the health care is disputable and inconsistent from area to area. (and I say this as someone who works in the National Health service) the emphasis in the NHS is "how little do we need to do? so it doesn't cost as much money" as opposed to other healthcare systems whee the emphasis is "Lets do as much as we can so we can make more money"

I also am entitled to a basic old age pension of approximately £80-£90 (145$ or 98euro) per week, at present from age 60. (soon to be upped to 65) So if you don't have a private pension you are in trouble. Although they do top it up to about £110 if you have no other income. Bizzarrly a married couple only get around £150 a week between them and not twice the pension.
(do I sound bitter? yes I am!)

Also minimal unemployment benefits if I loose my job.

There is private healthcare available but it is very expensive and most people who have private health insurance are wealthy or get it as a perk from thier employer. Taxed of course.

My, my, we have wandered off topic haven't we. How long would THIS thread have survived on TA?

[Becky (Berkeleytravelers)]

Anne, thanks for the clarification and now I see the confusion - in the US, we have the same basic system which is called a "payroll tax" (so, benefits considered to be funded by "taxes") although it does not support general healthcare, which is paid (if at all) by either an employer entirely (as part of the compensation package) or by employee/empoyer contributions (in which case, it is voluntary to the employee whether to pay and receive the coverage). The mandatory payroll tax supports old-age benefits, health care for that same group, and also benefits for those who are completely disabled from all work. There are other forms of benefits that provided limited health coverage to some persons not included in the old-age category, but generally supported other ways. Large (and governmental) employers almost always provide health coverage (usually paid by some contribution from employees - voluntary, they don't have to sign up for coverage - and/or employer contributions covering some or all of the costs), mid-size employers sometimes have health coverage available (almost always paid entirely by employee contributions) and small employers rarely have any coverage available - which is one of the reasons there are such problems with availability of good healthcare in the US.

[mossie]

Denise----Our system is crippled by an overpaid bureaucracy.
My wife had one knee replaced OK last year. She is in desperate need of the second replacement, I have to support her to get about indoors. BUT she is too fat according to these objects and should exercise to reduce weight. At nearly 77 and crippled how easy is that. These people try every trick to avoid work so I am being forced to the conclusion that I will have to stump up at least £15000 to get the job done by the same surgeon using the same facilities which I have paid in since July 1948 for. Sorry but I can get very steamed up about our so called "public servants".

[Jody]

Even with Medicare , for the over 65's, and a supplement we pay over $6500.00 a year for health insurance and that has no prescription coverage. That's why most of our drugs come from Canada or New Zealand! I get the same things for about 1/4 the cost.

[denise]

:)Mossie..I agree with you entirely, I have to deal with those overpaid bureaucrats every day and believe me their job is only to protect their own job and not to run the NHS! We could save so much money if only we got rid of these people and gave their jobs to clerks who know how to fill in forms and make spreadsheets on the computer.

Becky.. if most of the health care insurance in the US is paid by employers, what happens to the chronically and terminally sick, unemployed disabled/ mentally ill people when they get sick?

As to TA. I am becoming more and more cynical about posters. Today there was a report of somebody being shot near st Denis on July 24th. Strange the media didn't pick up on it!

The poster had joined TA just to tell us all about it!

If this is true, I am mortified. But this is how cynical I am becoming.

I understand now why TA doesn't have apartment reviews if it is a booking site for Expedia which deals with hotels.

Denise