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Post by Becky (Berkeleytravelers) on Jul 29, 2008 18:21:40 GMT -5
Laurel (and Denise), for me the question that sets the teeth on edge is "I'm going to X, now what will I like and what shall I do" with no clue given as to what the person's interests are or even why they selected that destination in the first place. Surely there must have been some reason that destination was selected, and the person surely would have some idea of what interests him/her about the place, even if only from what they've seen in movies or read in books? I'm sorry, but it's just too much like having an uninvited guest who happens to be a stranger just show up, plop down on the sofa and say "okay, now entertain me!" (But, mostly I just ignore such posts so I don't totally go off on the person - even when it seems like the most appropriate response, lol!)
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Post by mez on Jul 29, 2008 22:12:34 GMT -5
Yikes! I didn't mean to open a can of worms with my post.
Yes, it was a bit of a rant (and I did feel better getting it out) and I understand every person's point of view that's been raised but I think Becky has said it most succinctly in her post above.
I never said and I don't expect people to know everything about a destination, I don't expect them to know all the tourist places, I don't expect them to be frequent and savvy travellers, I don't expect them to be internet savvy, I don't expect them to be fashion plates or multi lingual and after a trip is finished, I don't expect everyone to have had the time of their life...All these things are learnt, observed and experienced over time.
What I do expect is for someone to have one reason why they have forked out alot of money and time to travel somewhere. And that's the crux of my question - is my expectation wrong?
I only need to look at the wealth of knowledge on this forum and I already know that in a lifetime of trips to Paris, I will never even make a dent in the enormous amount of information that I have already gathered here. I also know there are things that others on this forum are very interested in that I have little interest in. This lack of knowledge (or interest) doesn't make me (or anyone else) inferior/stupid/silly or any other adjective you care to attach.
My one main online source of travel advice is TA and I have been on there religiously since early 2007 for primarily the London, New York and Paris forums. In this time, I have seen the destination experts drop off, become disillusioned and (quite rightly) become rude because of such questions
My gripe is about the people that are making the trip and only after they have bought a flight and booked a hotel, they have decided to ask what there is to do there. The implication of such posts being they know nothing at all about their proposed destination - nothing. Not one thing. I find this enormously frustrating. Why? Because collectively we all all losing out.
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Post by cigalechanta on Jul 29, 2008 22:57:13 GMT -5
Re: Mon Lisa-not only a small painting but she looks like a guy in drag, and protected under glass and a railing makes for not an enjoyable experience.
Posters asking questions where should they go are really clueless. Everyone's taste is different. One may like one part of a country, some, another area. They should read a guide book about the country, reading how different the terrain, the food, the people, the weather can be.
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Post by GitteK on Jul 29, 2008 23:13:38 GMT -5
In the TA days I always had a standard answer, which I used to copypaste: Buy and read the DK Eyewitness Guide to Paris, by Alan Tillier. As a beginners guidebook you can get no better help, plus it has a lot of beautiful photos to look at. Wealth of information about sights, museums, quartiers - and not only for the Top Five Biggies. Can be bought at amazon. Be sure to get the latest 2006 edition, as it contains suggestions for walks in Butte aux Cailles and Parc Buttes Chaumont. It also has a nice walk in Auteuil, which I have copied to take with me next month. I don't bring it to Paris anymore, but I have used it a lot - and I still browse through it for ideas about smaller museums etc. DK EYEWITNESSAnd THEN if the poster had all sorts of objections for not wanting to do this elementary homework of reading a guidebook (at least as a common courtesy to the place she/he was going to) - I would drop the conversation. |
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Post by afds on Jul 30, 2008 12:52:35 GMT -5
I agree that lots of people aren't experienced travellers, but there's a difference between saying "this is what I want to do, any suggestions?" and "I need a sample itinerary" without any indication of what the person's interests are. It seems just plain lazy to me. And dangerous: what if you ask for restaurant advice and the person who responds is a tripe fanatic?
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Post by sunshine817 on Jul 30, 2008 13:27:32 GMT -5
Gitte, we still have a massive collection DK books for most of Europe -- they really are a fantastic introduction to a place.
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Post by chicchantal on Jul 30, 2008 13:27:41 GMT -5
Learn to eat tripe (bleugh!) I like the Mona Lisa cos I know what she was smiling about. I used to know a girl who had the same smile, you see.
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Post by Happygoin on Jul 30, 2008 13:38:25 GMT -5
Laurel, I feel bad that our (mostly harmless  ranting has put you off. You see, there really is a difference in the questions some of us are talking about and what you and Denise are talking about. An honest newbie has questions that we've all heard a million times. I don't mind that. I think I can speak for all the old-timers here when I say that none of us do. We all love to "see" Paris for the first time again with first-timers. We were all new to Paris at one time. I think we're ranting against the clueless people who want someone to plan their trip for them, without any idea of what they like. They strike me as lazy people, who would do well to sign up for a tour. The kind where they hold your hand throughout and you eat at rest stops on the highway (luggage out in the hall by 5AM please). Please don't let this thread scare you (or anyone!). First of all, none of us on OurParis would be snarky toward anyone who truly needs information or asks an opinion. And second, if anyone did, the rest of us would gang up on them and give them a noogie. ;D |
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Post by Becky (Berkeleytravelers) on Jul 30, 2008 13:41:12 GMT -5
Ouch!  Ouch! Don't hit me any more, I didn't mean it!!  |
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laurel
Junior Member
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Post by laurel on Jul 30, 2008 16:43:46 GMT -5
I understand your point(s) and realize I overreacted. Such a sensitive armchair tourist! Thanks for the concern and I just love this forum.
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Post by Becky (Berkeleytravelers) on Jul 30, 2008 16:57:24 GMT -5
Laurel, you didn't actually overreact - you just don't know how emphatic we sometimes sound, but without really meaning much by it . . .  |
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aude
Full Member
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Post by aude on Jul 30, 2008 17:55:44 GMT -5
I love Gitte's response to this question -- her cheerful recommendation of the guidebook gives a gentle nudge to the clueless poster on how to get their thoughts together before they return with more questions. Very pleasant, no judgment.
A few years ago when I first started reading the TA forum, it really surprised me that some of the most knowledgeable and helpful posters got really aggravated when new people asked uninformed or repetitive questions. Because they all put a tremendous amount of thought and energy into their devotion to Paris, it was hard for them to feel anything but scorn for folks who stumbled into the forum just to ask "What should I do?" I think I have the urge to defend these folks because I can imagine myself innocently asking that same question ten years ago, just thinking someone might say "oh my gosh! don't you dare miss the blah blah blah." After many trips to Paris, I now take it way too personally when someone I know goes to Paris and doesn't come home just loving the place. I have to remind myself that a trip to Paris isn't everybody's idea of heaven, just mine (along with lots of you guys). It's easy for me to forget that some folks only go to Europe once and approach travel in a very haphazard way.
Everyone on this forum is sooooooo welcoming, friendly and helpful. I've never gotten the least whiff of an impatient attitude toward a new poster.
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Post by sunshine817 on Jul 30, 2008 21:29:06 GMT -5
Gitte's response also quickly separates the wheat from the chaff -- those who are too lazy to put any effort at all into their trip never return -- and those who are capable of cogent thought generally come back with better questions.
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aude
Full Member
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Post by aude on Jul 31, 2008 10:38:26 GMT -5
Ah, I beg to differ on one big point: I think the Mona Lisa totally rocks!! I completely understand why Paris first-timers go to see and photograph the Mona Lisa -- I wouldn't have wanted to miss it! After all, it's the most widely known painting in the world. People who don't know Rembrandt from Picasso can easily recognize and identify the Mona Lisa. Exactly how this came to be is a whole issue unto itself, but for whatever reason, it's true, and the constant stream of people confirms it. Even though I presume most of us think other paintings might be more worthy of all the attention, any painting by Leonardo da Vinci is certainly worth a look, and one that has such an iconic grip across many cultures becomes a must-see. Adding to the fascination is the fact that over the years the Mona Lisa has been stolen, splashed with acid, and hit by a hurled rock -- so they put it behind bullet proof glass which sets it apart from all the other paintings, making it seem that much more special and valuable. You can't swing a stick in Paris without whacking a Mona Lisa mug, apron, mousepad, T-shirt, beach towel or shower curtain. So what's the big deal about creating your own Mona Lisa image by snapping a photo while you're there? I don't think it's difficult to understand why lots of Paris first-timers have the desire to see for themselves what all the fuss is about. I also happen to think it's a great painting, but I realize this isn't the place for a bunch of blabber about the merits of paintings. Just had to throw in my 2 cents worth!
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Post by luckyluc on Jul 31, 2008 10:45:10 GMT -5
Aude, if we can endure dozens of posts about bras surely a few about painting will be more than welcome ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
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Post by Becky (Berkeleytravelers) on Jul 31, 2008 11:24:40 GMT -5
Ah, LL, sorry but - you just wouldn't understand!
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Post by Laura NY (aoi33) on Jul 31, 2008 13:36:27 GMT -5
Luc, if Leonardo had seen how pretty some of those bras were, he would have painted Mona Lisa wearing one (if they'd been invented yet, that is!)  |
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ranting has put you off. You see, there really is a difference in the questions some of us are talking about and what you and Denise are talking about.
Ouch! 
Let the riot begin! LOL - 
hahahha