Advice

[willow]

Ok Aunties and Uncles, I had some free time at work before my mini vacation this weekend in Door County to plan my Real vacation in Paris.

So I came up with a *very* rough itinerary...
It needs tweaking and I need advice as to how to tweak it!

I'd like to keep most of the things on there, though if I had to get rid of one thing it may be Saint Denis unfortunately.

I want to keep Carnavalet & Vaux le Vicomte on there since they will be new to me. Also Picasso was a request by my friend as was Vaux le Vicomte.

I know the trip is sooooo very far away (209 days but who's counting..) but I enjoy having something prepared. Plus I need an itinerary when I break the news to my parents!

spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pRYFwAKnLfo7yKyWTMjB2Lg

[willow]

Oh...note that I have more time towards the end..I reserved that for wandering and shopping or if we see something else we may like!

[Anne]

Oh Willow, I didn't realize that you were staying for only 5 days !

Anyway, here are my comments :

- When you are at Notre-Dame on Tuesday or Saturday, you should really go and visit the archeological crypt located under the parvis of the church . This is one of the biggest archeological crypt in Europe and it shows Gallo-Roman ruins, Middle-Ages caves and several exhibits . I found it quite fascinating . I would say that you should allow at least one hour to see and read it all, but then I don't remember whether the comments are translated in English, so if they aren't I guess that the visit would be about 1/2 hour .
Here are a few pictures :
www.evene.fr/culture/lieux/crypte-archeologique-du-parvis-de-notre-dame-80.php?photo

- You have allowed only four hours to the visit of Vaux-le-Vicomte, but have you checked the transportation time to go there ?

- You should allow more than two hours for the Carnavalet, since it is a huge (about 150 rooms) and BEAUTIFUL museum . But then you don't need three hours for both the E.T. and the Arc de Triomphe, do you ?

- Planning three hours in the Luxembourg gardens when the weather may be freezing cold or raining at this time of the year is rather daring . Get yourself a plan B for those three hours .

- You will spend much time in transportation on Friday, especially since Versailles and Saint-Denis are each located on the opposite side of Paris .

[mez]

Wow! You are organised - I haven't even started plotting my itinerary. Mind you, the parents already know. ;D

I agree with Anne re: Friday - perhaps you should skip Saint-Denis this time?

Also, I know there was a 'check-in' time for my apartment last time. I got there early and there was no one there, so I was OK but it's something to consider that could happen.

[Jody]

Anna, see if you can pick up a copy of the June France Today. There is a very good article on Vaux. If you can't find one, PM me and I'll send you my copy.

Jody

[sistereurope]

Willow,

wow, you are organized! I agree with Anne and Mez...I'd re-think going to St Denis and the Louvre on the same day. And I'm with Anne on another point - I could have spent a LOT more time in the Carnavalet.
Glad to hear that you're leaving some time for unexpected pleasures - make sure that you go off schedule at least once! ;D

[Shoesy]

Willow - Don't worry about having to break the news of your trip to your parents. Just tell them that your aunties and uncles are supporting you all the way. However, be sure NOT to mention the part about the possible French cutie you might meet and fall in love with.

[willow]

Great! That is exactly the type of info I was looking for!
I am a planner, so I love to this sort of stuff . Not too mention the fact my parents will take the news of another Paris trip much better if I show the same amount of effort and organization as the previous trip.

Anne- Thanks so much for the detailed feedback! I didn’t go to the Notre Dame Crypt last time, but from the pictures it looks fascinating! I really liked the crypt at Saint Denis so this will be a good substitute!
As of right now I have Vaux le Vicomte down for five hours. It is a ½ hour train ride, and then a 6km taxi drive from the station, which roughly gives me three hours to explore. If we find ourselves pressed for time I really don’t plan on being a drill sergeant and forcing us to move on. The chateau is open till 8PM so we can just delay our return trip and dinner.
Ideally, the Eiffel Tower won’t have terribly long lines in the morning so that three hours I have booked will be much more manageable and therefore give me plenty of time to explore Carnavalet.
I have to figure out what else there is to do on New Years Day as right now Luxembourg is justa vague thought. Most major museums and sites are closed , so I am looking for something more obscure but more concrete than just Luxembourg Garden!
And going back to Saint-Denis, I may have to give it the cut to preserve our sanity. I may just replace it with St.Eustache and/or St.Etienne or perhaps a different church to minimize travel as we already have Vaux and Versailles on the list!

Mez- I really should tell my parents soon, but I am pretty nervous. Everyone keeps asking me when I will tell them, since I booked the trip in February! All my siblings know so at least they know what’s coming! As for check in time, since we arrive so early, we will probably drop off our baggage and with the owner and take in breakfast somewhere before Notre Dame.

Demarais- Where do they carry that magazine? Would a Borders or B&N have it?

SE- I tend to go off schedule all the time, but I like having the schedule as a comfort item! I don’t have some things scheduled that I know we will do (eat many crepes, have berthillon even in the cold, visit the department stores for the displays etc!) So even though the plan is detailed, the end result is not quite as efficient or organized but oh so fun!

Shoesy- Unfortunately my parents assume that part as I joked about it before! I am sorely tempted to wait till the day before, but that would send them into a tizzy!

[annettecinca]

Willow, I've purchased France Today at B & N here before, so they should have it (unless they've sold out)

[GitteK]

Day 1
Vaux le Vicomte on the SAME day you arrive after how many hours of flight, jetlag and what have you ?? As you already know the chateau is at some distance from Paris and it takes trainriding as well as bus/taxi to get out there. Remember, your friend is a Paris virgin, don’t you think she would like to settle in and wander a bit around in the streets of........ you know...... PARIS , instead of being hurried OUT of town instantly ?

PLUS you risk a nasty, crappy weather of icy rain pouring down like whiplashes….. and then a nice long afternoon hot-chocolate feast at Angelina’s might be more agreeable for you.

Crypt under Place de Parvis de N.D. ?? Not a sight to last you a lifetime, if you ask me. Nothing at all like the crypt under St.Denis, where you can see the age old stone tombs and almost feel the ghosts flying around your head. I visited the N.D. crypt last summer and left with a feeling of “Been there, done it, seen it, didn’t buy the t-shirt”. IMO, it comes on a place around #20 on a first-timer-to-do-list.

River cruise is a must-do with a first-timer, but I would perhaps recommend a bustour of Illuminated Paris instead. I took my little old ladies on the tour arranged by Parisvision in Sept. and it was very, very lovely. It had audioguides at every seat, so you weren’t forced to listen to some goofy guide yapping away. It was pick-up in front of their office in Rue de Rivoli, very central. You can buy the tour in advance.
tinyurl.com/5yy3qx

Day 2
Looks fine (New Years Eve) – but have you considered going to some midnight mass ?? There must be plenty of those all around the city. It must be spectacular.

Day 3
Slightly hung-over you may need some fresh air, so OK to Jardin de Lux. But if it is freezing outside, I would make it a short visit……
Also I think you should make a short stroll around Montmartre, if you have already planned to show her Sacré C. At that time of year I suppose that the otherwise heavily touristed small streets and Place du T. make a really charming visit. And as you know, the view is incredible, e.g. from Place du Calvaire.

Beaubourg – do you mean the Pompidou Centre ? Hmmmmm……… are you very much into modern art ? If not, a stroll to see the art galleries in Place des Vosges and a long row of glasses with "Vin rouge chaud à la canelle" would sound more like the thing to do.....

Also I wondered a bit about your geography – if I were you, I would “bundle” things so that you would’t have to do so much transportation between sights. Waste of time, unless you are a metro buff.

Day 4
Versailles, St. Denis and Louvre in ONE DAY !!!!!!! Are you CRAZY !!! ?? I didn’t think you were aiming at one of the classic American trips to Europe: “If it's Tuesday, then this must be Belgium".

No, seriously: you will not get any true soak-it-up pleasure out of ANY of those places, if you cram it into one day. That is simply not doable, and I think you already knew that, only you got a wee bit greedy, peut-être ?

And IMO you don’t need to “do” Louvre. Admire it from the outside, as it is an overwhelming palace to behold – if only for its size ! Versailles is much better for the “OOOMPPFF” and “WAAAUUUW”-effect , but there is no way you can be back in Paris before 15:00 in the afternoon, so you need a rest in the afternoon – and maybe do some shopping.

After that you can take her to St.Eustache or Ste Etienne du Mont – but maybe you need a contrast after all that gold-and-glitter, so how about a nice stroll down Rue Mouffetard or Rue Montorgeuil or another pedestrian street with lots of shops to look at ? Or take her to the covered passages: Passages des Panoramas and Passage Jouffroy – from there it is only a short walk to Galeries Lafayette, where you can shop-till-you-drop.

Or how about Canal St. Martin followed by a stroll up Rue du Faubourg du Temple - a very colourful street with lots and lots of things to gawk at ! And perhaps dinner in the yummy-yummy "Auberge des Pyrenées-Cevennes" next to Place de la République, when you get back ??

Day 5
Again I allow myself to question the amount of deep pleasure you will have from cramming in two so famous museums, with so many major works of art to see. IMO, your senses will go on “overload” – and you risk ending up with an exhausting, stressing “tour-de-force-of-achievement”. Ask your friend what kind of art she prefers and then go for that. And leave the rest of the day for just “dawdling” – following your feet, nose and instinct.

You want my honest opinion ? You need to let go a bit and let life take care of itself, babywillow. Cheezus, you are going on a VACATION !!! Not a military drill with the Navy Seals !!!

And........... WHY all those MUSEUMS ?? They give you nothing but dead, obsolete, old stuff piled up ...... You are too YOUNG for that !! You want REAL LIFE, kiddo !! Paris is out in the STREETS !! With the sounds, the people, the fashion, the smells of caramelized almonds, fresh croissants, roasting chickens, the lights, the shop windows, the crazy traffic, the cafés and not least:

"getting-lost-in-Paris-in-the-most-delightful-way-and-not-wanting-to-be-found-ever-again"

Love from your old auntie in Denmark

[denise]

:)Dear Willow, the first thing that strikes me is how ORGANISED you are with spreadsheets and everything. I don't usually comment on itineraries, I just love to study them with interest. I'm always very impressed with peoples planning.
However as your trip is not till 2009 I think planning this itinerary is part of the fun and the dreaming and you obviously want to share that with us.
As other people have commented it would be a good idea to email the owner of your apartment re storage of luggage before check in and then if there is a problem you can always arrange to leave it at left luggage at Gard du Nord.
My second comment is about Wednesday, you are traveling from Eiffel tower in the 7th to Musee Carnavalet in the Marais and the back across town to the Arc de Triomph. Could I suggest that it would be better to see Eiffel tower and Arc de Triomph in the morning as they are not far from each other and the distance is walkable and then cross town to the Marais and Musee Carnavalet and Then the Hotel de Ville which is in the similar area for the evening.
Of course there may be some reason why you have planned it this way. In which case you can take no notice of me.
I think it's a great itinerary and you will be able to see alot.
Enjoy
Denise
Love from England

[framboiseetrose]

Willow, I completely agree with Gitte. When I read your rough itinerary, I thought that everything was too much - no time to enjoy but I was having a hard time putting recommendations in writing - thought someone else can do a much better job that I can. That's where Gitte comes in.

Gitte, you have to change from being an insurance maven to be the ultimate guru of "Paris Visite de OPF". I salute and exalt you!

[willow]

Gittek I must exalt you for that great critique!
I am having such a hard time balancing a a first time visit for a not so adventurous person, with my own second visit. This is why I know I can count on my aunties and uncles for help and bring my back from the depths of becoming a Murrican Tourist. We are young enough to be able to do lots, but I don't want to be in Belgium on Tuesday

Just a few things of note though....

I can't handle Angelina's..it ruined my taste for chocolate for months!!
I don't think there is a midnight mass at New Years, it's a Christmas thing.
I will probably spend more time in Montmartre as I really enjoyed it last time.

I have printed out your feedback and put it next to my planning tool (post its with the places to see and their hours which I try to arrange on a blank printed spreadsheet)..I may rip up a few post its after Gitte stirring post though. I seriously would go crazy if I didn't plan, just thinking about it scares me!

Denise- Thanks for pointing out my lack of geography skills, that one completely flew by me...

[GitteK]

Yes, I think you are right. The midnight mass is of course a Christmas event. But on New Years Morning you should have plenty of chances to go to mass and confession, to tell the padre about your New Years Night escapades !! ;D

(OMG, I hope babywillows old folks are not reading this....... )

[willow]

Willow's parents speak and write no english....

[GitteK]

good for you !!

My advice: be veeerrry careful with relatives who DO speak-and-write English (and READ it, God Forbid !!) - 'cause they may be plotting some blackmail scheme on you, if they ever find their way to this forum ......

[Jody]

I will probably spend more time in Montmartre as I really enjoyed it last time.

Did you go to the Musee de Montmartre on your last trip. It's behind Sacre Coeur and is very small but filled with lots of goodies!

[willow]

I didn't think of that Gitte..I do have many siblings who do understand English..yikes!

[willow]

My friend emailed me a response to the information I sent from Gitte:

I LOOOOOOOVED THAT! She sounds so funny!

Seriously, take her recommendations into consideration - seems she knows what she's talking about!!!!!!!!!! lol

[Anne]

Sorry Gitte, but I have to disagree with you on a few points :

- As I already said, I find the crypt under the parvis de Notre-Dame very worthy to visit . Agreed, it may not be an ABSOLUTE must and I admit that I never visited St Denis and its crypt so I cannot compare, but since the girls plan to visit Notre-Dame on two occasions anyway … I loved to see remnants of ancient Paris, and the contrast between the busy, noisy parvis and the crypt just a few steps down is quite stunning . And don’t forget that Americans are not exactly spoilt for ancient ruins in their own country either ;D …

- Le Louvre is REALLY worth visiting, but not the same way as all tourists on tours do it : they “do” the Louvre by hurrying from one department to another in order to see a few major sights in each major department . When we go to the Louvre, we pick one or two departments + some rooms that we are REALLY interested in and then visit them leisurely and really enjoy ourselves . Even my kids enjoy it, and believe me, museums are not exactly their idea of “Fun in Paris” . And mind you, we have never even cared to try and push our way through the Japanese hordes in order to gape at the Mona Lisa .

- As much as I love roaming the streets of Paris, like you, I always balance this with museums visits, since Paris “is” its beautiful museums too . Yes, it is a bit of a shame to be stuck in a museum when the weather is nice, but don’t forget that Willow is going in full winter and there are chances that the weather may be lousy, so she may be grateful for museums ...